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Interview
with STEVE HICKEY, PhD |
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Dr. Steve Hickey |
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ASCORBATE:
THE SCIENCE OF VITAMIN C Andrew W. Saul Interviews Vitamin C Expert STEVE HICKEY, PhD No medical professional's bias or
belief system can long withstand Steve Hickey and Hilary Roberts' absolutely
first-rate presentation of the safety and effectiveness of megadoses of
vitamin C. There are only two possible reader responses to their book:
persuasion or dismissal. Ascorbate: The Science of Vitamin C is a thorough review (575 references) of what, at least until now,
has appeared to be a controversial topic. Along with Dr. Tom Levy's book, Vitamin
C, Infectious Diseases, and Toxins: Curing the Incurable (reviewed at http://www.doctoryourself.com/levy.html
), it ranks among the absolute best. My full-length review of Ascorbate:
The Science of Vitamin C is posted
at http://www.doctoryourself.com/ascorbate.html. I wish I'd had a book of this
caliber back in the 1970's when my kids were infants, and here wasn't a
doctor in sight that would give our vegetarian and megavitamin C lifestyle the
time of day. The outlaws, er, ah, in-laws were
against it, too. Even so, I raised my kids all the way into college without a
single dose of any antiviral, antihistamine, or antibiotic. To put it
bluntly: the stuff really works. And here’s why. DOCTOR
YOURSELF NEWS: So how did it all start? STEVE
HICKEY, PhD: We (co-author Hilary Roberts and I) had been following the
developments in vitamin C and antioxidants with some concern. Since Linus Pauling's
death, there seemed to be a great deal of misinformation coming into the area.
The NIH had performed some questionable experiments and were
making the apparently ridiculous statement that blood plasma and tissues
became saturated with low doses of vitamin C. There was no mainstream
research on high doses and the establishment was making wild extrapolations
from their low dose data. We could not see how a clinical trial with 200 mg
of vitamin C, for example, could be used to suggest that higher doses were
not effective. The work
of physicians like Bob Cathcart, Archie Kalokerinos
and Abram Hoffer was intriguing. The reported effects, especially of
intravenous vitamin C, were astounding. It was difficult to find any reason
to explain the lack of scientific follow-up. By analogy, it was as if many
independent physicians were each independently discovering antibiotics and
no-one was interested. We had friends and relatives that were sick or dying
from diseases that high dose vitamin C was claimed to cure. Eventually we
felt we had no choice but to write the book. DY NEWS:
What are your past and current occupations or university appointments? HICKEY: I
have a PhD in Medical Biophysics from the Hilary
Roberts' first degree was in Physiology and Psychology, she has a Masters in
Computer Science and her PhD was on the effects of early life malnutrition,
at the Department of Child Health in the researcher and consultant. She is also working on a second nutrition
book. DY NEWS:
How did you happen to meet each other? HICKEY:
We met at DY NEWS:
Advocating megadoses of vitamin C as actual cure for serious disease has been
a fount of frustration for many an academic (Linus Pauling coming instantly
to mind), practicing physician or grant-seeking research scientist. What heat
have you personally been taking from your book? HICKEY:
None whatsoever - so far. We have been actively trying to provoke a response
from the NIH, the Institute of Medicine (IOM) and associated scientists. I
suppose they are trying to ignore us, but they can't hide forever. I think it
is clear that the current ideas of plasma saturation are simply wrong and
cannot be defended. One or
two scientists have tried to support the use of white blood cells to estimate
body requirements. This is more central to the IOM's justification of the RDA
than the plasma studies, but equally silly. Dr Mark Levine told us he used
white blood cells because they were easy to sample, not because they were
representative of normal body cells. The RDA committee, using Levine's papers
as their basis, claimed that these cells were the best model. In giving their
reasons, the IOM used a single reference to justify the choice of cell, but
that paper did not support the idea that white blood cells are similar to
other body tissues. White blood cells have special needs for vitamin C. They
absorb it actively and have levels from 25-60 times the surrounding plasma.
Biologically, it is difficult to think of cells with more specialized
requirements and uptake mechanisms for ascorbate. Many of
the people whose work we have respected for years have welcomed the book,
which is encouraging. Those on the opposite side have tended to ignore it, which
is disappointing, but unsurprising. We have taken time and effort to seek out
and email the establishment scientists that support the low-dose ideas, but none
have chosen to defend these ideas. DY NEWS:
Your book carefully examines the Moertel-Pauling
vitamin C/cancer controversy. I understand Moertel
died the same year Pauling did, but was nearly thirty years younger. Does
that hit a nerve of the ascorbate researcher? HICKEY:
We are obviously delighted that Pauling lived such a long life and was productive
until his death, aged 93. Everyone benefited from his work. Charles Moertel died in his sixties and they both died of cancer.
Ironically, recent results suggest that if Dr. Moertel
had performed his vitamin C and cancer experiments with more of an open mind,
the results might have saved his life. DY NEWS:
In spite of so much modern research confirming that he was right, Pauling is
still vilified by some. Why do you think this is? What is it about this little
molecule, C6H8O6, that so ticks off the medical
professions? HICKEY:
Pauling was one of the greatest scientists who have ever lived. Anyone has
the right to criticize his science if it is incorrect. However, the criticism
directed at him in connection with vitamin C has often been personal and this
is not acceptable. Pauling's achievements are greater than are those of his
detractors: it sounds like sour grapes to attack him on a personal level. The
medical establishment's response to vitamin C seems bizarre. They have denigrated
its use in high doses but have not responded to reports of efficacy by independent
physicians. The reasons for this are not scientific. Pharmaceutical companies
have a great financial interest in ensuring that high dose vitamin C continues
to be seen as ineffective. The existence of the tobacco companies demonstrates
that some companies value profits more highly than health. If the claimed
benefits of high-dose vitamin C can be demonstrated, its use would greatly
reduce the profitability of the medical industries. Furthermore, if vitamin C
were shown to have these properties, we might expect people to start asking whether
other antioxidant supplements could have similar effects. The
medical establishment gives the appearance of avoiding high-dose vitamin C experimentation.
They seem to confuse nutritional doses, between 200 mg to 10 grams, with
necessarily much higher pharmacological doses. For example, they might
perform a clinical trial using a dose of less than 400 mg for heart disease and,
finding no response, suggest that vitamin C is useless. A nutritional dose of
400 mg of vitamin C is not likely to reverse heart disease, but this
experiment has no bearing on whether or not higher doses might be more
effective. Pharmacological
doses start at a minimum of 10 grams for treating disease. Dr Robert Cathcart
(http://www.orthomed.com) and others
have given daily doses of several hundred grams for serious illnesses.
Cathcart classifies the severity of viral disease in relation to the vitamin
C bowel tolerance level, so he might describe a "40-gram cold" or a
more severe "120-gram cold." The medical establishment has been
negligent in failing to investigate such doses. DY NEWS:
I noticed that your book properly zeroes in on intravenous administration of
vitamin C. Many of my readers are vexed that their local hospitals and
doctors will not provide this. Your comments? HICKEY:
It is possible that many physicians are worried about litigation when giving
therapies that are not in the accepted mainstream. Dr Tom Levy trained in law
as well as medicine and his book, "Vitamin C, Infectious Diseases and Toxins,"
(http://www.doctoryourself.com/levy.html
) was written in part to help with this situation. Patients might consider
getting a copy of his book for their physician. (Editor's note: The book is
reviewed at and a sample chapter is
posted at http://www.tomlevymd.com/vcfour.htm
) DY NEWS: Ascorbate: The Science of Vitamin C,
even with its 575 references, might be described as just slightly
controversial. What parts of your book are your critics attacking you over,
specifically? HICKEY:
This is quite strange. One critic suggested that we were too harsh in describing
cold fusion as an example of pseudoscience. A professor did not like one of
the chemical diagrams. That is it, as far as criticism goes. The medical establishment have been unable or unwilling to respond to
the important points made in the book.
DY NEWS:
As you cite them, can you please tell us about your experiences, discussions
or contacts with Dr. Bob Cathcart, Dr. Abram Hoffer, and Dr. Tom Levy? HICKEY:
They were an inspiration. Robert Cathcart read the whole book in early draft
form and provided us with feedback and helpful suggestions. Abram Hoffer read
sections of the manuscript and was most encouraging, as was Tom Levy, who
told us about his plans for future research. The book owes a great debt to
the work of Cathcart, Hoffer, Levy and other physicians, who have risked
their reputations and careers in the hope of getting orthomolecular therapy
considered. DY NEWS:
To that, I can only say, Hear, hear! How much attention is Ascorbate: The Science of Vitamin C
receiving in your country, a nation under the imminent threat of CODEX and
the EU supplements directive? HICKEY: I
think the Codex and EU legislation has European nutrition professionals and
supplement takers in a panic. Stopping the Codex will be difficult and the
current emphasis is on a legal challenge in the European Court of Human
Rights. I will be assisting Patrick Holford in a
presentation to the UK House of Commons in October. DY NEWS:
How are what I understand to be your strong efforts to increase the US RDA
and other government nutrient intake standards progressing? HICKEY: I
must mention the sterling work that Bill Sardi,
Medical Journalist, has been undertaking in this area. If we are successful
in getting the RDA increased, it will certainly owe a lot to his persistent
efforts. I have received no credible scientific response to the challenge,
from either the NIH or the IOM. There appears to be no defense to the plasma
"saturation" claims. However, the IOM have just claimed that they
actually based the RDA on levels in white blood cells, rather than plasma
saturation. This was probably their best attempt at a reply. As we pointed
out in "Ascorbate," the evidence for the use of white blood cells
is at least as silly as that for the use of plasma levels. White blood cells are not a suitable model
for the whole body: they are unusual and specialized in their use of ascorbate. DY NEWS:
To date, where has you book been reviewed? HICKEY: I
don't have a full list, but there are readers' reviews on Amazon.com, Lulu.com
and the Vitamin C Foundation website http://www.vitamincfoundation.org . Dr Richard Passwater reviewed the book for WholeFoods
Magazine (Sept. 2004). The latest reviewer is Dr Sandra Goodman, author of
"Vitamin C the Master Nutrient," for Positive Health magazine. The reviews
we have seen have been positive. We had expected a lot of negative feedback
and disinformation from the establishment but, so far, this has not materialized. DY NEWS:
How do both of you get along with your personal physicians? HICKEY:
Very well; our physicians are helpful and open. They have some coverage of
alternative medicine and include acupuncture as a therapy. Neither of us has
needed to visit since the Ascorbate book was published. DY NEWS:
Because of how much vitamin C you take, perhaps? How much vitamin C do you
take daily? How about your families; children? HICKEY: It
varies - several grams a day at least, more if we feel under the weather. We
take it at intervals throughout the day. My (grown-up) children take similar
amounts. Hilary's father, a skeptical, retired surgeon, has also been on vitamin
C for about 20 years, since having a heart bypass operation. I think he started
it as a placebo, as supplementing was easier than dealing with the repeated suggestions
that he needed it! However, from a recent scan, his arteries are clear and, now
he has read the book, he is starting to think there might be something in it
after all. For further reading: Hickey S
and Roberts H. Ascorbate: The science
of vitamin C. 2004. ISBN 1-4116-0724-4. [You might also enjoy reading DOCTOR
YOURSELF (http://www.doctoryourself.com/saulbooks.html)
and FIRE YOUR DOCTOR! (http://www.doctoryourself.com/review.html)]
Interview and comments copyright
2007 and prior years by Andrew W. Saul. |
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AN IMPORTANT NOTE: This page is not in any way offered as prescription, diagnosis nor treatment for any disease, illness, infirmity or physical condition. Any form of self-treatment or alternative health program necessarily must involve an individual's acceptance of some risk, and no one should assume otherwise. Persons needing medical care should obtain it from a physician. Consult your doctor before making any health decision. Neither the author nor the webmaster has authorized the use of their names or the use of any material contained within in connection with the sale, promotion or advertising of any product or apparatus. Single-copy reproduction for individual, non-commercial use is permitted providing no alterations of content are made, and credit is given. |
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